[Users] New setup - deploy OpenVZ or wait for VZ7?

Narcis Garcia informatica at actiu.net
Fri Jun 3 23:39:04 PDT 2016

I'm not much proficient in english, but I understand that Scott points
to OpenVZ/Virtuozzo own distribution as the most reasonable way for
releases of the major version 7.

This means the following scenario: KVM, LXC, UML, Xen, etc with no
specific GNU/Linux distribution (packaged for everyone), but to exist
separate OpenVZ GNU/Linux and Virtuozo GNU/Linux distributions focused
on specific containerization (Proxmox style).

As Linux is not a complete operating system, OpenVZ is not a complete
oiperating system too. The GNU/Linux distribution is what completes the
operating system, with packages about firewall, mail transport, etc.

An OpenVZ GNU/Linux means maintaining everything for a distribution, and
people who prefers Debian stable-style packages will not find same
consistency level in another distribution not focused in this chapter
for environment software.

El 04/06/16 a les 00:25, Scott Dowdle ha escrit:
> Greetings,
> The sub-subject of this should be: OpenVZ/Virtozzo 7 packages distro packages?
> ----- Original Message -----
>> Is it possible to build kernel packages/userspace utilities for
>> debian jessie as well ?
>> Right now there is only kernel/userspaces utilities for debian wheezy
>> and userspace only for debian jessie.
> Before I start my semi-rant, I want to make it clear that I'm just a user and I have no idea what Virtuozzo's plans are.  Clear?  Ok.  Now to start.
> Will there be packages OpenVZ/Virtozzo 7 packages for other distros?  I don't think it is a good idea.  As you know, V7 is its own distro... rebuilt from EL7 (CentOS).  It supports both containers and KVM virtual machines... and offers its own library based tools as well as integrates with libvirt (and the goal is to upstream the libvirt stuff although I don't know the status of that).  There are a lot more userland tools than the small handful of things used in OpenVZ Legacy.  I believe there are also some lower level distro packages that have been modified to meet the needs of V7.
> The host node is for running VMs and containers... not other services... not user accounts... just for virtualization.  The strength of say Debian... is that it is built for a wide range of arches and has a very, very big package collection.  None of that is needed for a V7 virtualization host.  Debian is a "universal OS" aka general purpose.  What Virtozzo is offering is a distro built just for the purpose.
> The work involved in building all of the V7 packages for other distros would be significant.  Then what about the (probably very small number of) distro packages that V7 would want/need to replace?  What about testing it?  Both KVM VMs and containers?  How big is that test matrix going to be?  Your distro already has libvirt and KVM packages but you aren't going to try and use those are you?  You want the ones tested with V7.
> Red Hat bought Qumranet... and is the main driving force behind KVM, libvirt, a significant chunk of every mainline Linux kernel's development (#1 identifiable company on most all kernel releases)... they ship and support KVM.  They have their own virtualization products built on top of it (well several if you count OpenShift and all of its flavors and RHEV).  They are the main driving force behind gcc and glibc, etc.  They sponsor a lot of work.  RHEL and the EL clones are supported for a long time.  Their kernels are supported for a long time.  It is the most appropriate platform (in my opinion) for building on top of especially when that product is related to a core competency of EL which is KVM, libvirt, etc.
> When you have a product that has a lot of packages and requires it to all work together well... trying to shoehorn those all onto multiple distros is a lot of work.  There are two basic approaches... bundle everything you use... and totally ignore what the underlying distro provides... OR support a limited number of distros and build specifically for them (the Zimbra approach... with the number of supported distros dwindling over time).  I don't think either of those would be a good approach giving the nature of a newish company with a new major release coming out.
> How long is it taking Virtuozzo to get the product to the market after EL7 was initially released?  How long of a lifespan does it have left on that platform?  Compare that to the lifespan of other distros.  If V7 was targeted at a Debian release how much life would that version of Debian have left in it?  It seems to me that about half of the distro lifespan would be devel time leaving only half of it for deployment time.
> Are Red Hat, Gentoo, SUSE users demanding that Proxmox VE make packages for them?  Not really.  Proxmox VE is derived from Debian and can probably be used easily on any Debian-based distro that uses the stock Debian repos... but anything else... forget about it.
> Now having said all of that... if you can make a compelling argument on why Debian (for the host node) would be a better distro to build upon for this use case (or any other distro), I'm all eyes/ears.
> Or if someone wants to take all of the code and built packages on their own for other distros that's fine... but expecting Virtuozzo to do it I think is asking too much.
> TYL,

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