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<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 03/13/2014 11:58 AM, Kir Kolyshkin
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote cite="mid:5321FFE1.2060901@parallels.com" type="cite">
<meta content="text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1"
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<div class="moz-cite-prefix">Ola, thanks for info!<br>
<br>
To make a long story short, I have reverted the build script to
the old versioning<br>
scheme. The next -testing kernel (042stab086.x) will use it, and
the stable kernel<br>
with this old versioning will be released in about a month.<br>
</div>
</blockquote>
<br>
In fact I've just released 042stab085.18 to wheezy-testing, which is
back to the old versioning.<br>
<br>
Please test it and let me know if it works for you.<br>
<br>
Kir<br>
<br>
<blockquote cite="mid:5321FFE1.2060901@parallels.com" type="cite">
<div class="moz-cite-prefix"> <br>
Kir.<br>
<br>
On 03/12/2014 01:47 PM, Ola Lundqvist wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote
cite="mid:CABY6=0=x01LcXbC=WH1Oai_tN6OrQT8A87kzBak8p0e7ErpTrw@mail.gmail.com"
type="cite">
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charset=ISO-8859-1">
<div dir="ltr">Hi
<div><br>
</div>
<div>I can give you some additional feedback on what I think
is the motivation for why the Debian packages was done this
way.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>1) Debian kernels are tested a lot before each release.
The release is done every second year or so and there is a
freeze period of at least a half a year with a lot of
testing involved.</div>
<div>2) The main motivation for this change is probably that
the kernel maintainers do not want to wait for FTP
maintainers for every new version uploaded. If you create a
new package in Debian you have to wait for FTP maintainers
approval before it can reach the archives.</div>
<div>3) There is probably one more motivation and that is the
Debian archive size. It has grown over the years and the
kernel is a quite significant size of it. If every new
kernel is kept for a while that cause a large archive.
Keeping the package name solves this issue.</div>
<div>4) There is one more thing as well. That is that there
are quite a few module packages in debian and they have to
be re-built when the package name is changed. If the name
can be kept (see ABI too below) they do not have to be and
that release some load on the build infrastructure.</div>
<div>5) Still kernel maintainers are aware of ABI
compatibility. This is the reason for the -n part of the
version number. It tells (I guess) the ABI version number
for that kernel. As long as the ABI is still kept the
package name can remain.</div>
<div>6) The same thing as in 4) above applies for custom build
kernel modules done by the system administrator. This time
it reduce the work for the system admin to build their
custom modules as ABI compatibility is known by package
name.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>I do not think the error message:<br>
<span style="font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px">"Some
packages can not be updated, because they require other</span><br
style="font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px">
<span style="font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px">packages
that are not installed on your system. You might use</span><br
style="font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px">
<span style="font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px">apt-get
dist-upgrade to work around that"</span><br
style="font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px">
</div>
<div><span style="font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px">is
something that we should have as an argument. It is not
really an error message, and in some cases it is a good
thing to get an extra reminder that something large is on
the way.</span><br>
</div>
<div><span style="font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px"><br>
</span></div>
<div><span style="font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px">I
agree that the "old scheme" is better in case the kernel
is not that well tested. If it is well tested then it is
not really a problem.</span></div>
<div><span style="font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px"><br>
</span></div>
<div><span style="font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px">On
the other hand point 6) above is an argument for the "new
scheme".</span></div>
<div><span style="font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px"><br>
</span></div>
<div><span style="font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px">I
do not think point 2), 3) and 4) is something that applies
to the openvz kernels. They should not be a problem.</span></div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Kir: But you need to consider point 5 and make sure that
you make a new package name each time the ABI compatibility
is broken.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>I do not want to vote for either scheme, both are good,
but in different ways.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Cheers,</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>// Ola</div>
<div><br>
</div>
</div>
<div class="gmail_extra"><br>
<br>
<div class="gmail_quote">On Fri, Mar 7, 2014 at 9:23 AM, Kir
Kolyshkin <span dir="ltr"><<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:kir@openvz.org" target="_blank">kir@openvz.org</a>></span>
wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0
.8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div bgcolor="#FFFFFF" text="#000000">
<div>
<div class="h5">
<div>On 03/06/2014 06:13 PM, spameden wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div dir="ltr">Hi<br>
<div class="gmail_extra"><br>
<br>
<div class="gmail_quote">2014-03-07 5:28
GMT+04:00 Kir Kolyshkin <span dir="ltr"><<a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:kir@openvz.org"
target="_blank">kir@openvz.org</a>></span>:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote"
style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px
#ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div bgcolor="#FFFFFF" text="#000000">
<div>
<div>On 03/02/2014 02:01 PM, spameden
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div dir="ltr"><br>
<div class="gmail_extra"><br>
<br>
<div class="gmail_quote">2014-03-03
0:38 GMT+04:00 Ola Lundqvist <span
dir="ltr"><<a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:ola@inguza.com"
target="_blank">ola@inguza.com</a>></span>:<br>
<blockquote
class="gmail_quote"
style="margin:0px 0px 0px
0.8ex;border-left:1px solid
rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
<div dir="ltr">Hi
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Problem fixed now.</div>
<div>I had fixed the
problem temporarily, but
I had forgotten to
upgrade to the
debarchiver version with
the fix so it will not
happen again. Now I have
done the upgrade and
fixed the problem
properly.</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>I think it's not fixed
properly:<br>
<br>
</div>
<div>1) wrong version of
linux-image:<br>
</div>
<div># dpkg -l|grep
linux-image-openvz<br>
</div>
<div>ii
linux-image-openvz-amd64
042+1
amd64 OpenVZ Linux
kernel (meta-package) <br>
<br>
</div>
<div>2) # ls /boot |grep
openvz<br>
config-2.6.32-openvz-042stab084.17-amd64<br>
<b>config-2.6.32-openvz-amd64</b><br>
initrd.img-2.6.32-openvz-042stab084.17-amd64<br>
<b>initrd.img-2.6.32-openvz-amd64</b><br>
System.map-2.6.32-openvz-042stab084.17-amd64<br>
<b>System.map-2.6.32-openvz-amd64</b><br>
vmlinuz-2.6.32-openvz-042stab084.17-amd64<br>
<b>vmlinuz-2.6.32-openvz-amd64</b><br>
<br>
</div>
<div>so now we are missing
usual version here in the
package.. that's actually
very bad ... can you look
into it?<br>
<br>
</div>
<div>many thanks.<br>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<br>
</div>
This is intentional, and I changed it
after looking into how default Debian
kernel is packaged/versioned.<br>
<br>
If you take a look, they have
[meta]package linux-image-amd64 which
requires<br>
package linux-image-3.2.0-4-amd64. The
latter (currently) has a version of<br>
3.2.54-2 and this version is changed
(incremented) with every release, while<br>
package name stays the same
(linux-image-3.2.0-4-amd64). Also,
vzkernel<br>
name stays the same -- it is
/boot/vmlinuz-3.2.0-4-amd64 in different
versions.<br>
I am using the very same approach now
for OpenVZ kernels.<br>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>I understand your position. I checked
how it's done in Debian and yes you're
right, they're using this scheme for their
mainline 3.2.0-4 kernel.<br>
<br>
</div>
<div>Tbh, I don't like their "NEW" way at
all. <br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Here is why:<br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>When new version of OpenVZ kernel comes
its hard to have 2 different kernels on
the system (with different versions).<br>
<br>
</div>
<div>Here is a simple scenario:<br>
<br>
</div>
<div>1) new kernel comes and it's not
working at all on certain configurations.
<br>
<br>
2) if you configured grub correctly it
would boot previously working kernel after
reboot.<br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>--> But it wont boot previous OpenVZ
kernel version, because when you upgrade
you overwrite existing kernel and you need
to rollback to the previous version
manually.<br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote"
style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px
#ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div bgcolor="#FFFFFF" text="#000000"> <br>
Previously I was adding the VZ version
(i.e. 042stab0xy.z) into kernel package
name,<br>
and it was added to vmlinuz and the
/lib/modules directory name as well. </div>
</blockquote>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>I really liked how it was done before.
There was an option to leave certain
kernel versions for testing as well and
delete what is not needed.<br>
<br>
</div>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote"
style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px
#ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div bgcolor="#FFFFFF" text="#000000">The
problem<br>
is, you need to specify a different
dependency in linux-image-openvz-amd64
metapackage,<br>
and apt-get upgrade complains that it
can't upgrade the system since a new
version<br>
of an installed package
(linux-image-amd64) requires a package
that is not installed yet.<br>
The problem could be fixed by running
dist-upgrade, but eventually I decided
that<br>
this message is a hint that I package
openvz kernels improperly, that lead me
to<br>
looking into a way standard Debian
kernels are packaged and implementing it<br>
the same way for OpenVZ kernels.<br>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Interesting.. I never seen myself such
problem before. It worked just fine for me
for a long time (before there was a
problem with chksums). <br>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<br>
</div>
</div>
The error from apt-get update was something like this<br>
(sorry I don't have exact message):<br>
<br>
"Some packages can not be updated, because they require
other<br>
packages that are not installed on your system. You
might use<br>
apt-get dist-upgrade to work around that"<br>
<br>
So I started to look why this is not happening with
stock Debian kernels<br>
and found out that I was doing it all wrong (or so I
thought at that time).<br>
<br>
We can surely revert back to the old packaging scheme...
<div class=""><br>
<br>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div dir="ltr">
<div class="gmail_extra">
<div class="gmail_quote">
<div> <br>
</div>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote"
style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px
#ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div bgcolor="#FFFFFF" text="#000000"> <br>
I am not a Debian guru and am very open to
suggestions on how to improve this.<br>
Perhaps we can return to the older
versioning scheme and ask people to use
dist-upgrade.<br>
Or maybe I am totally missing something.
Please help.<span><font color="#888888"><br>
</font></span></div>
</blockquote>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Yes, old way was really cool and
convinient personally for me on production
environment. And for testing new stable
kernel versions too.<br>
<br>
</div>
<div>Of course there is a drawback that you
need to cleanup old kernel versions
manually, cuz your /boot partition must have
some free space for future upgrades.<br>
<br>
</div>
<div>If OpenVZ kernels are very well tested
before going to stable versions I wouldnt
mind NEW way. It's probably more proper to
have just 1 OpenVZ kernel version and update
it from time to time..<br>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<br>
</div>
This is what we do with stable kernels -- they are
released about once a month,<br>
and we test a lot before releasing those. But yeah,
maybe we should just revert<br>
back to the old scheme.<br>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
<br>
<br clear="all">
<div><br>
</div>
-- <br>
<div dir="ltr">
<div>
<div><font face="courier new, monospace" size="1"> ---
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