[Users] Why open source OpenVZ project require commercial CloudLinux as platform?

Pavel Odintsov pavel.odintsov at gmail.com
Tue Jun 30 05:14:07 PDT 2015 

Thank you for detailed answer. I haven't  questions anymore! Awesome!

On Tue, Jun 30, 2015 at 3:11 PM, Sergey Bronnikov <sergeyb at openvz.org> wrote:
> Let me explain and answer on your questions (inline).
>
> As we announced earlier we have following plan:
> - publish source code of closed components from commercial product (Virtuozzo
> aka PCS 6)
> - publish RPM packages for each component
> - publish test builds for Virtuozzo 7 distribution as installation ISO image
> We made all our planned action items. Binary builds are available right now
> and announce about it will follow (I believe this week).
>
> Preferred and recommended way to use our containers is installation of
> Virtuozzo 7 distribution on bare metal. Why we recommend to use
> our own distribution?
> - distribution includes kernel with additional patches for containers
> which are still absent in vanilla kernels:
>         * ploop
>         * veth patches
>         * io limits
>         * iops limits
>         * new memory management for containers are in upstream,
>         but few patches are still not committed
>         * /dev/console
>         * virtualization of tmpfs
> - Virtuozzo distribution includes Cloud Linux packages with our patches.
> Sometimes during testing we found bugs which requires changes in
> standard Linux components. In such situation we make patch and try to
> put in upstream. It is quite long process, but we do our best to make it done.
> Thus Cloud Linux is our upstream Linux distribution.
> Examples of components with our patches:
>         * grub
>         * parted (global sync patch)
>         * upstart
>         * anaconda + pykickstart
>         * gcc
> Again, we can only recommend to use Cloud Linux with our containers and virtual
> machines but we cannot forbid you to use our tools with other Linux
> distributions.  Also you can build your own distribution with our VZ components
> and name it for example "BolgenOS Containers". You can sell it and provide
> support for money. It is a main idea of opensource - you can do with opensource
> components everything you want, if these action doesn't violate license.
>
> P.S. Cloud Linux is the same Linux distribution as RHEL, CentOS or
> Scientific Linux. But we can rely on developers from Cloud Linux unlike
> CentOS community or RedHat. SRPMs for Cloud Linux distribution are
> public available. See http://koji.cloudlinux.com/cloudlinux/7/os/Sources/
> So your complains about "closed Cloud Linux" are not acceptable.
>
>
> On 12:01 Tue 30 Jun , Pavel Odintsov wrote:
>> Very hard to run something now... So much "if" / "should" and "it's
>> not working yet".
>>
>> I prefer wait until time "when everything will be work".
>>
>> Actually there are no profit from open sourcing project at this time.
>> Because so much "heritage" from Commercial world which I do not like
>> at all.
>>
>> I do not want to be part of "test monkeys for commercial project".
>>
>> I want to be part of community and I want to contribute to
>> community.But it's real nightmare because I'm from another world. And
>> "closed CloudLinux" means for me "keep away from this project, it's
>> not true open source".
>>
>> Finally, I really appreciate moving to open source. But I do not like
>> steps of Odin company and community manager here.
>>
>> 1) They offer test kernels with no sources. I.e. there are no way to
>> build RHEL7 kernel manually from open code
>
> Really? Could you provide more details?
>
>> 2) They offer closed source distribution with bunch of crap instead
>> 3) They put bunch of code to src.openvz.org but this code lacks os
>> docs, manuals and any help! We tried to build few tools for few weeks
>> and it's really HARD challenge.
>
> Wow! Would be nice to hear your experience. Please share!
>
>> 4) They offer "Debian 8 templates" but do not provide any references
>> "How you can build template manually".
>
> Ask not what OpenVZ can do for you but what you can do for OpenVZ?
>
> We have quite limited engineering resources and huge plans for upcoming
> Virtuozzo 7. For resources I mean smart people who works under Vz7 for money
> and other staff which works for full time, make the best containers and
> publish these work for everyone.
>
> If you found something absent in open project you can implement it yourself.
>
>> Odin, folks. If you put code to somewhere in Internet do not mean
>> "doing open source".
>
>> Open source is:
>> 1) Share ideas
>
> https://openvz.org/Wishlist
> More ideas will come with OpenVZ Jira. We are preparing it right now
> and will migrate all OpenVZ issues from Bugzilla to Jira soon.
>
>> 2) Offer help and documentation
>
> What kind of help do you expect?
> We plan to publish documentation for Vz7, but it will be quite
> similar to PCS 6 documentation published on site
> http://www.odin.com/products/virtuozzo/documentation/
>
>> 3) Mind about community, not about commercial success.
>
> Sure. It was a reason why we gathered community feedback in
> OpenVZ survey.
>
>> I really can spent my time and my engineers time for doing Virtuozzo
>> better but you do not hear me. Unfortunately. Very sad.
>
> Thanks for your oppinion.
>
>> On Tue, Jun 30, 2015 at 11:45 AM, Kristian Marcroft <KriS at kwm-web.info> wrote:
>> > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
>> > Hash: SHA1
>> >
>> > Hi,
>> >
>> > CentOS 7 should be supported once Virtuozzo 7 is released.
>> > As far as I know Odin is porting their OpenVZ/Virtuozzo patches to the
>> > RHEL 7 Kernel at the moment.
>> >
>> > Currently they use RHEL 6/Cloud Linux 6 as a base. This will change
>> > with Virtuozzo 7. This is what the Versions actually mean.
>> >
>> > Regards,
>> > Kristian
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > Am 30.06.2015 um 10:29 schrieb Pavel Odintsov:
>> >> Thanks for answer Kristian!
>> >>
>> >> But my question about another case. I can't find CentOS 7 here.
>> >> From my opinion it means I can't send bugs to bugzilla because "you
>> >> have used not recommended distribution". It's normal practice for
>> >> big vendors and I really scary about it.
>> >>
>> >> On Tue, Jun 30, 2015 at 11:15 AM, Kristian Marcroft
>> >> <KriS at kwm-web.info> wrote: Hi,
>> >>
>> >> that page indicated it is recommended, not it's required? You
>> >> should be able to use CentOS as an OS?
>> >>
>> >> I don't think that will change. I do think that Odin will actually
>> >> give out recommendations and that Odin will support their
>> >> recommendations in their commercial Product Virtuozzo.
>> >>
>> >> Regards, Kristian Marcroft
>> >>
>> >> Am 30.06.2015 um 09:57 schrieb Pavel Odintsov:
>> >>>>> Actually I want to make feature request for ability to run
>> >>>>> open source OpenVZ on normal open source distro like CentOS
>> >>>>> or Debian where I can be sure about really _clean_ code from
>> >>>>> viruses and backdoors.
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> On Tue, Jun 30, 2015 at 10:50 AM, Pavel Odintsov
>> >>>>> <pavel.odintsov at gmail.com> wrote:
>> >>>>>> Hello, folks!
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>> I have just found this article:
>> >>>>>> https://openvz.org/OpenVZ_with_upstream_kernel
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>> And I enough upset with it because I need to install
>> >>>>>> Commercial Paid Software (CloudLinux) for running open
>> >>>>>> source OpenVZ.
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>> From my point of view, it's not OK to ask for license for
>> >>>>>> external license.
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>> I could buy something from Odin/Parallels but I do not want
>> >>>>>> to buy additional tools from another company which is
>> >>>>>> completely not related with OpenVZ project.
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>> That's all.
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>> -- Sincerely yours, Pavel Odintsov
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>>
>> >>> _______________________________________________ Users mailing
>> >>> list Users at openvz.org
>> >>> https://lists.openvz.org/mailman/listinfo/users
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
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>> > _______________________________________________
>> > Users mailing list
>> > Users at openvz.org
>> > https://lists.openvz.org/mailman/listinfo/users
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Sincerely yours, Pavel Odintsov
>> _______________________________________________
>> Users mailing list
>> Users at openvz.org
>> https://lists.openvz.org/mailman/listinfo/users
>
> --
> https://openvz.org/Contribute



-- 
Sincerely yours, Pavel Odintsov

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