[Devel] Re: [RFC] network namespaces

[Herbert Poetzl]

On Thu, Sep 07, 2006 at 08:23:53PM +0400, Kirill Korotaev wrote:
> >>Herbert Poetzl wrote:
> >>
> >>>my point (until we have an implementation which clearly
> >>>shows that performance is equal/better to isolation)
> >>>is simply this:
> >>>
> >>> of course, you can 'simulate' or 'construct' all the
> >>> isolation scenarios with kernel bridging and routing
> >>> and tricky injection/marking of packets, but, this
> >>> usually comes with an overhead ...
> >>>  
> >>
> >>Well, TANSTAAFL*, and pretty much everything comes with an overhead. 
> >>Multitasking comes with the (scheduler, context switch, CPU cache, etc.) 
> >>overhead -- is that the reason to abandon it? OpenVZ and Linux-VServer 
> >>resource management also adds some overhead -- do we want to throw it away?
> >>
> >>The question is not just "equal or better performance", the question is 
> >>"what do we get and how much we pay for it".
> > 
> > 
> > Equal or better performance is certainly required when we have the code
> > compiled in but aren't using it.  We must not penalize the current code.
> you talk about host system performance.
> Both approaches do not introduce overhead to host networking.
> 
> >>Finally, as I understand both network isolation and network 
> >>virtualization (both level2 and level3) can happily co-exist. We do have 
> >>several filesystems in kernel. Let's have several network virtualization 
> >>approaches, and let a user choose. Is that makes sense?
> > 
> > 
> > If there are not compelling arguments for using both ways of doing
> > it is silly to merge both, as it is more maintenance overhead.
> > 
> > That said I think there is a real chance if we can look at the bind
> > filtering and find a way to express that in the networking stack
> > through iptables.  Using the security hooks conflicts with things
> > like selinux.   Although it would be interesting to see if selinux
> > can already implement general purpose layer 3 filtering.
> > 
> > The more I look the gut feel I have is that the way to proceed would
> > be to add a new table that filters binds, and connects.  Plus a new
> > module that would look at a process creating a socket and tell us if
> > it is the appropriate group of processes.  With a little care that
> > would be a general solution to the layer 3 filtering problem.

> Huh, you will still have to insert lots of access checks into
> different parts of code like RAW sockets, netlinks, protocols which
> are not inserted, netfilters (to not allow create iptables rules :) )
> and many many other places.

well, who said that you need to have things like RAW sockets
or other protocols except IP, not to speak of iptable and 
routing entries ...

folks who _want_ full network virtualization can use the
more complete virtual setup and be happy ...

best,
Herbert

> I see Dave Miller looking at such a patch and my ears hear his rude
> words :)
> 
> Thanks,
> Kirill
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